On this episode of Marketer-to-Marketer, Joe Pulizzi, Leah Hammes, Demian Ross, and Melanie Deziel chat about their Content Marketing World experiences.Read More
Do you have a mission statement? Are you employing tactical marketing? This week on Explicit Content your hosts Pamela Muldoon and Jeff Julian discuss the CMI annual B2B Content Marketing Research Report and its applications in growing your business.
An organization’s content mission statement should be a living document that outlines the overall strategy but allows for agility in customer satisfaction and retention. One thing that is always constant in our industry is change. Integration of strategy, development, and sales are becoming more important in today’s dynamic landscape.
Vanity content may be satisfying creatively, but will it reach your targets, and if it does: will it land effectively? The metrics we receive from various platforms can be misleading; using them in conjunction with content audits is an established way to ensure satisfaction. The alignment of strategy and development can be a razor’s edge to walk, but it is critical to delivering a quality product while flowing money to the bottom line.
Good research begets good content. Understanding your customers, and their customers are key. Building a well-researched persona for your client will result in a much higher return on investment, and retention.
Let's discuss bringing it back to the basics with audience driven tactical marketing.
Thank you for listening to the Explicit Content Podcast. For more information, check out enterprisemarketer.com.
Full Show Notes and Transcripts: https://emktr.co/ecp13
Jeff Julian: Welcome to the Explicit Content Podcast. Here are your hosts, Pamela Muldoon and Jeff Julian.
Pamela Muldoon: And welcome to another fantastic episode of Explicit Content Podcast. And of course, my cohort, cohost, what is it, a partner in crime is another one.
Jeff Julian: Yeah, that works well.
Pamela Muldoon: Jeff Julian. Hi, Jeff, how you doing? I'm Pamela Muldoon, for those that are probably tuning in for the first time. Nice to hear from you, Jeff. And I understand you're on the road traveling today, and we're doing this literally as you're driving around the country again. So thanks.
Jeff Julian: Yeah, luckily I'm not in the car, so we don't have that. We're in an Airbnb in New Jersey. And man, I could totally see why the hotel industry is being disrupted, 'cause we have a whole house to ourselves for this month. It's been amazing. It's like we live here, and the cost is a fraction of what it would be in a hotel.
Pamela Muldoon: Nice.
Jeff Julian: Yeah. We're in Jersey, in New York City. I had some workshops and some recordings we're doing with some other friends, and one more week left, and then we're heading home.
Pamela Muldoon: Heading home. Getting ready to hunker down for the winter.
Jeff Julian: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Pamela Muldoon: I say as I live in Henderson, Nevada.
Jeff Julian: Well, it does get a little chilly there, right?
Pamela Muldoon: It does, it does. It gets down in the 50s. Sometimes it's low in the 20s, 30s at night in the desert here. So it does get fairly chilly. I do see my breath in the winter at certain points of the day. However, having come from the Midwest, I'll take the dry cold over that wet, snowy cold that you guys are going to get. If you haven't already, you're probably going to go home to it.
Jeff Julian: I know. It's likely. But as we try to warm by the fire, we need something to read, and Content Marketing Institute has delivered, as they do year after year, with this year's 2019 content marketing research report.
Pamela Muldoon: Yes, specifically, their B2B content marketing 2019. It's so odd to say the words 2019. It's only, what, October when we're recording this, so 2019. And of course this is put on by Content Marketing Institute and MarketingProfs. They've been doing this for a number of years. It's funny, I don't know about you, Jeff, but I know now that there's Content Marketing World in early September, and then within two to three weeks, I'm going to get this, and I actually look forward to it every year.
Jeff Julian: Yeah.
Pamela Muldoon: It's something I know. It's coming. It's coming in October. Or by October, right?
Jeff Julian: It's like Apple doing their announcement of the iPhone, right? It's like "Hey, the research is coming, the research is coming."
Pamela Muldoon: Yeah, and they do a great job. I mean, they've been doing this for a number of years, and they really, I guess, have done a nice job of really kind of breaking down the research into strategy, tactical, just different elements that are involved. And not just content strategy, but even the operations end. Size of team and who's doing what, and just some of the success, key areas of success that organizations are finding or feeling as they implement more of a content marketing strategy into their entire organization. So I think today is all about our take on some of those key findings, yes?
Jeff Julian: Yeah, definitely. And I focus more on the content creation and distribution, and you're focusing on the strategy side.
Pamela Muldoon: I am, I am. And so I'm gonna go ahead and just kick off. In one of their key findings they talk about specifically this document of content marketing strategy. And I'm not surprised by these findings. I think today in 2018, as we move into 2019, that if 81% say if they have a documented strategy that align to mission and goals, that they're going to be more successful, yes. I'm gonna just go with that, right? And it makes it easier to determine which types of content to develop. Kind of a no-brainer comment, right? But at the end of the day, I think it would be nice to see some, I guess, comparison benchmarks. 'Cause I remember, we've been doing this content thing for a long time. And when we started attending Content Marketing World or being a part of this industry, for me I've been doing this pretty consistently for 10 years already. These numbers were, it really did make sense to ask that question. Because companies didn't even know what content marketing was.
So I guess the positive is that there is much more of an alignment of strategy and goals in content development, which is where it should be, and it's good to see that those numbers are starting to match what should be happening just organically inside of an organization.
Jeff Julian: Yeah, but at the same time, I taught two workshops over the past month while I've been traveling, and still, when we get to the content mission statement portion of the micro-workshop, people are like "What's a mission statement? How does this work?" And it's like I'll explain it for 10 minutes, and then still glazed-over eyes. Like "You want me to write a mission statement?"
Pamela Muldoon: Right.
Jeff Julian: Yeah, document a strategy, right? What are we gonna do, for who, and how are we gonna be different? And it's still, you can tell that it's not that they don't necessarily understand the process, it's that they know in their organizations they don't get that flexibility to decide what they're going to release. Somebody's gonna come down and request something, and are they supposed to say no if it doesn't fit in the strategy? And yeah, the answer's yes.
Pamela Muldoon: Well, you bring up a really good point, because then the bigger question is, is that strategy? I know I've worked in organizations and teams where I was the order-taker, that's basically the order-taker model, where either leadership or sales, somebody on the external marketing department is saying "Okay, marketing, we need you to develop X, Y, and Z." And there's really no rhyme or reason other than kind of made up. We're justifying it somehow. But you're absolutely right. So I think the bigger question could be, is when you align to what types of content are developed based on your strategy, what is your strategy? What do you define as a strategy? And you know, the whole mission and goals piece to this is quite fascinating.
Because obviously Joe Polizzi has been talking about the content marketing mission statement for 10 years, right? This is nothing new for those of us that play in the content marketing institute space. But it is hard, it is really challenging, especially when you come into your organization and if you're in, say, more of a middle management role or a tactician role, you really still have to rely on your leadership to understand what it means to do a mission and speak around "What are we gonna be the best in the world at, to who?" What does that really mean to develop content and get really focused and niche and tight around the content we develop? And that, I think, is something that will continue to improve over time. But it's a really valid point. What is your strategy?
Jeff Julian: Yeah, and I think it will go back to this year being the year of ROI, is kind of what I'm dubbing it. That more teams are gonna get smacked with the reality of hey, what are we getting out of all this content marketing that we've been investing in? How can we track? We know it's working, but we might want to figure out what's working, so that way we don't mess it up, and that way we can monitor it.
Pamela Muldoon: Right.
Jeff Julian: And so now that we're kind of being told "Hey, we need to see what we're investing and then also what that return looks like," it's going to take that strategy of helping us start to test and analyze and push through this.
Pamela Muldoon: Well, the data will help you determine what you're best at as well, right? It may even be that you have to take your first year of really strong data, and then the next planning session define your mission around what's popping up or boiling up to the surface, right? So I think there is a little bit of give and take there. But at the end of the day, the fact that organizations are actually talking about content development as it aligns to strategy, I would, from your data perspective, take it one step further and align to business objectives. That once we start having those conversations, you really can't turn back. You're gonna continue to move forward in that same way. So I think that's a very positive result in this particular part of the research today. Yeah.
Jeff Julian: And it leads to one of the areas that I saw significant, just attraction to the numbers real quick, is that 90% of those who are successful prioritize the audience's informational needs over the sales and promotional message. And I found that shocking, because that means we're standing up or it means that we're so disconnected that sales is doing their own content, right?
Pamela Muldoon: Oh, that's too ... well, not funny ha-ha, but yeah.
Jeff Julian: That could be it. I know a lot of marketing teams that just do not interact with sales, and sales folks, it's because they don't want to hear "no." It's like "We gotta close the deal, we're getting paid differently than you. So we're not going to incorporate it." And then a lot of marketing teams, they rely on agencies. And agencies are primarily audience-driven.
Pamela Muldoon: Right, right. And I think one of the areas of this, of course this is fairly high-level research, but when I see something like this, you kind of look at the pros and cons list when you go through this stuff. And the pro, obviously hearing that there's content being created from B2B organizations, they're thinking more about the audience, that's fantastic. We need to be doing that hands down, right? But to your point, is there alignment with sales? And I think the other piece to that is, I don't want to discount the importance of the sales promotional message as you work your way through your customer journey. You still have to bring the integration of that conversation in when your audience member is ready to have it. So I think one of the elements missing from this is where in the awareness process are you putting this information? That may be even more of kind of a detail they can't obviously do in the research, but I think it's something we have to consider.
Obviously, Jeff, if you're doing awareness level content, we want to educate, right? We want to build trust, we want them to know that we know what we're talking about, and all that stuff. But at the same token, when you get to that consideration, evaluation parts of the customer journey, if you aren't talking about some of your value proposition, you could also lose them. So it's a fine balance. But I think overall, would you say that's a positive, to see that 90% are connecting the dot to be more successful because they're putting education, at least what I'm assuming is first?
Jeff Julian: Yeah, yeah. But like you said, another part of the survey they talk about the different stages of content, and the numbers are significantly lower on content written for the late stage process. And it was really early, it's built like a funnel. The earlier it is, the more content they're producing for it. But if you're truly focused on what the customer's looking for in line with the business, it should be pretty even, sort of, the distribution.
Pamela Muldoon: And I think we also discount the loyalty phase, right? We all know the numbers, it takes less to keep a customer than it does to go out and find a new one, yet we spend all this time on the awareness-
Pamela Muldoon: A customer then it does to go out and find a new one yet we spend all this time on the awareness stages, right, awareness into, oh they love us now, now what, right?
Jeff Julian: Well it's almost like yeah we just rolled them back into the early stage saying, “Everything we create you love.” Because you're into that type of persona.
Pamela Muldoon: And if you're getting them to purchase a new product or a new service, there might be some smart methodology to that, right? Now that it's awareness of a new product not of the company or the brand, right?
Jeff Julian: Yeah.
Pamela Muldoon: So there's elements of it that I think could fall in line with kind of repeating the phases or the stages over, even if you're on loyalty. But it kind of also goes to business objective right? If your numbers are to increase retention by X percentage, well you better be focusing on your current customers. And there's a lot of interesting, creative, wonderful content ideation that can come from that as well. And I think it's an area that companies are missing the mark on when it comes to this content development side.
Jeff Julian: And the research shows it because just back to that same portion it says incorporating interactive features into our content. When I think of interactive, I think of personalized pieces of content. And so if they're a customer, you know quite a bit about them, hopefully you do, you should have access to that data. So having deliveries about the information that you know. If I know you bought this particular air up hot tub from us, because that's the kind of market I'm usually in, I love going in the backyard, and sitting in my hot tub and watching YouTube. And-
Pamela Muldoon: You are such a nerd.
Jeff Julian: ... yeah, but if you know that I bought that, well guess what, you can hit me up pretty much constantly with-
Pamela Muldoon: You can re target through YouTube constantly.
Jeff Julian: ... Imagine that, wow, that's almost like Inception level marketing. But you could target me with supplies that you know I'm gonna need, with winterization issues, with stories and stuff like that. There's so much you could do-
Pamela Muldoon: Yeah the upsell, right?
Jeff Julian: ... And make it, yeah exactly, to make it to where whenever this air up hot tub blows a hole, and I have to buy a new one, that I only think to buy from you guys. You know what I mean?
Pamela Muldoon: But here's the interesting point based on these research findings and what you're saying as well, right. Another area that I was, it really bothered me to see this, 42% only used well researched personas, right, that they understand, 42%. They say that they, it's like we say it, we know this stuff would help us, however too few of us are actually doing it. And here's the funny thing I wanna say, gosh four, five, six years ago it was all about, it was like the year of the persona. You had wonderful experts talking about how to build a persona, how to ask the right questions, how to do the work. And somewhere along the line the foundational work that we as marketing teams need to do in content, seems to not be quite as sexy. And I think we're trying to cut corners in our attempt.
And perhaps part of it is also re looking at resources because to your earlier point on data that requires technology. And so you've got a lot of technology betting and perhaps you're putting a little more money in your marketing technology versus your resources in humans. I don't know what the case is, but man we've gotta go back to the basics. We've gotta get those customer journeys aligned to personas and we've gotta do content audits and actually understand what we currently have so that we know where our gaps are.
So to your point, we see a lot more from the awareness versus say the consideration or evaluation. Well my response would also be, “Do we? Do you know that for sure?” Now we know that from a general sense but for your own organization can you honestly say that? And the only way you can do that is to audit against the foundational work. So I was a little disappointed to see that only 42%, but then it also kind of speaks to this need for getting content that is much more aligned to a personal, interactive experience.
Jeff Julian: We want to thank Rev.com for being a sponsor of the show and helping us bring transcripts and captions to the enterprise marketer and explicit content podcast shows. For more information about Rev and to get $10 off your first order visit emktr.co/rev.
I've heard over and over and over the past year that personas don't work, and we threw them out because it was a waste of time, and I'm like, "No-
Pamela Muldoon: My heart hurts.
Jeff Julian: ... you paid an agency to create the first version, and they had some 22 year old kid who had no idea what a civil engineer did, and they made that crap up, and then they put it on a form, and then yeah, your marketing team took it, they ran with it and they looked at it, but, it didn't mean anything to them." And I go back to, you can't take personas out of marketing. You always have an ideal customer you're looking for. It's how much can you truly empathize with that customer. The more you can, the more engagement you have, the more you understand about that person, the active understanding is the persona. Now document it and share it, and have group meetings with each other, and bring them into your offices, and engage with them. And figure out what's going on and how you can help them have a better life.
Pamela Muldoon: And if you're going to spout the words customer experience in any of your goals, or mission, per se, then you better be talking to that customer and making a connection and asking the detailed tough questions so that you're actually feeling aligned to what it is that you're putting out and they're ingesting. It seems, I think honestly we just, as a collective, this is a very general statement of course, but as a collective we've gotten away from some of that foundational work that is still critical, absolutely critical, to successful content marketing.
Jeff Julian: It's like people saying, "Millennials killed XYZ," if it's like restaurants, right, "Millennials killed Applebee's." No, Applebee's hasn't targeted me specifically for anything, and I'm Applebee's number one customer, yeah I could be. And I'm in the town where they're freaking at. But, dammit they haven't reached out, they haven't tried anything. So I haven't thought to go to Applebee's. And that's the thing, it's like you're not thinking about the specific customer. You're taking all these former tactics that used to work, and that's what's changed. The tactic no longer worked that they were using, but they still use it.
Pamela Muldoon: They haven't evolved into more of what's working in today to reach that same customer or a new customer. Absolutely. Speaking of reaching, so I've got a question for you, well actually I'd love your insight. So what CMI and MarketingProfs does along with breaking down some of the really specific tactics, they also talk a lot about how that equates to SEO and search, which is an area, I'm sorry my brain always hurts because it's changing all the time. So I would love your take on just some of the findings around that area of the research since this is in a little bit of what you've done in the past and continue to do, SEO stuff.
Jeff Julian: Sure, and that was actually, that was the number two reason that people in the research on the paid methods of promoting content. Because you know across the board people are paying money through social networks of some sort to promote their content. And the number two reason was to generate traffic when organic search results aren't producing the desired results. Because it seriously used to be, you'd put a page up and within a couple days it was generating results from you on Google. And that's just, unless your page is substantial, that's just not happening anymore. We're not seeing that traffic. If you go search content marketing today, it's not showing you the most current information about content, it's trying to show you the most relevant. And to knock some of those people, the E-consultancy, the content marketing institutes, off of that list is going to be very hard unless you pay to get into that top three spots.
And mobile is even worse now. It's like you have to scroll almost two pages to get to the organic search results. To get through paid because so much money is being invested in social instead of search engine results.
Pamela Muldoon: Well of course depending on your industry and the keywords or phrases you're going after, the cost can be just totally out of a lot of organizations' reach, totally. It's not even, so they have to create great content and interactive and engagement, all these, you know content buzzwords.
But the other piece to this, that's been kind of bubbling up for me, and it's not in our, it'll be interesting to see if it's part of next year's report or within the next two years, and that's voice-activated search. And how that's starting to play a role in all of this, craziness as well. It's not enough, Jeff, that we have to worry against the paid accounts, and we have to, you know get our keywords and key phrases really tight. Now we have this voice-activated search thing to deal with as well, right?
Jeff Julian: It's almost like, there's so many other types of search. Like you talked about voice-activated, now you see Cleveland Clinic jumping in and doing their Alexa Skill for daily health tips. And so now other industries can start jumping in and doing Alexa Skills. My Bose headphones have Alexa built into them. I can just push a button and I can talk to Alexa. My house, any room you go into you say, "Alexa", and it lights up. But then at the same time, when I go to YouTube and do a search, that search engine is completely different than the other Google search engine. And when I play a video, it's now showing me my competitor videos afterwards. And, you know, I get this question all the time. "How do I control what comes up after my video?" And the answer is, "How do I control what comes up after my Facebook ad in the feed? I can't. I don't." YouTube is a feed with a really ugly interface of just video after video, right? So you can't control that, YouTube controls that.
And so yeah it goes back to, I feel like the big thing that's gonna come just crashing down on our industry in the next five years is, what happens when we can't reach people through email anymore? And we can't reach people through all these search pieces because the algorithms are tweaked for interest and intent, and the delivery time, and the type of content just doesn't matter anymore. And we wish we had a way to communicate with them, but we did all this social promotion and got all these vanity metrics to make us feel good. We never really built an audience.
Pamela Muldoon: Right, well and that goes back to the persona, right? Like we have to start asking questions like, "When searching for, within the industry, do you use Alexa or Echo? Do you use these voice-activated, or how do you use them?" I mean I think we need to start asking those questions because the front runners in anything are always going to fail forward more quickly, and the rest of us will just have to catch up.
Jeff Julian: And now you've gotta think of, if you think of voice search being something that we should incorporate, now look at what Jay Baer's talking about with talk triggers.
Pamela Muldoon: I know.
Jeff Julian: Word of mouth of content distribution, right, how can we do that with content market? And how can we focus on that being a thing?
Pamela Muldoon: Yes.
Jeff Julian: Where we're trying to get our content distributed by our consumers and turning them into influencers, and having a bigger megaphone because we have people ...
Jeff Julian: ... influencers and having a bigger megaphone because we have people who are part of something, instead of, you know, consumers of some things.
Pamela Muldoon: You know, it's one thing you can always ... what do they say? One thing that's always constant is change. Well, that's especially so in marketing, right? In digital especially, which bringing into the word digital and change, right? This is an area I know you also follow pretty closely as the marketing tech part of this. I found it interesting, Jeff, that on the section around technology inside the research report, they talked about the proficiency and use of technology. You know, when you look at the way the respondents, they kind of went from expert to beginning. Like, how they felt they were overall in marketing tech.
The majority say their kind of in the advanced to intermediate, right? Which makes sense if you look at the types of tech they're talking about, right? When you look at the tech that they're talking about, where there's more proficiency. It's the social media publishing, the analytics reports from that, the email marketing, and analytics tools, like you know, Google, and all the various different tools out there, which makes sense, right, because that's where a lot of us ... it's at, I don't want to say easy because some of this stuff is pretty complicated, but it's where we probably have had the most inroads in our industry, I would say, right?
The part that kind of surprises me and I definitely need room for improvement, are the CMS, the management system portion, and the creation portion, right? Those were 50, just right around 50% feel that they're, you know? And yet, dang, from a strategy standpoint, strategy and operations needs to be aligned so, so much to be able to make this work because then to your point on tactics, right? How do you know if you're choosing the right tactics and it all, you know, dribbles up to the top?
If you don't have the technology that's allowing your organization, your team, or your subject matter experts in other departments to be able to, outside of email, right, communicate and work together to get the end result done, it can really hold up your ability to create content well, efficiently, and be agile, right? How can you be agile if you're not using technology from a proficiency standpoint?
Jeff Julian: Oh, yeah. We can get busy and because we're busy, we don't look at the ways that we should align the tools correctly. Content management systems over the past, I would say probably five years have become, or are trying to become the end all, be all. They want to be this operating system of the enterprise when it comes to marketing. There are just so complicated. No one can keep up with them. Word Press is one that most people just like go back to. They're like, I can set this up real easy and it has such flexibility, but the minute you do that, you typically lose the connection, right?
It's like, you know, saying, "Oh, I'm just going to use a flashlight to light the room because I can't figure out the electrical lines in my house." That's not what we need to be doing at this point. We need to be trying to connect more things, integrate more things, put in things like digital asset management systems. We are building things that interrelate with each other. The marketing team should start looking at hiring more developer centered people on their team, rather than working with agencies all the time and working with their own IT departments.
Pamela Muldoon: Yeah, because obviously, you need somebody who can speak a little bit of both languages, right? Marketing and tech. It's becoming not even a want to have, it's a need to have. I think as these organizations continue to evolve. It's also so important from just, you know, the creation and tactile standpoint to be able to make those changes, and make the efficiencies happen, right? It's kind of one of those things where, if you don't have it, you don't even realize how much more efficient you can be until you have it.
Jeff Julian: Yeah.
Pamela Muldoon: I mean, it's kind of like in my voiceover world, Jeff, you don't know really good voiceover, until you hear it.
Jeff Julian: Yeah.
Pamela Muldoon: And you're like, oh, that's what it's supposed to sound like. Yeah, it's kind of one of those things. I think another area that I see a lot when it comes to technology and then you look at content development or strategy, is the ability to easily locate all of your archived content so that you aren't always like you mentioned before, we're always creating new, right? More than likely, there's a ton of really good stuff in your organization.
You just haven't taken the time, or your company keeps looking forward, not kind of stopping the, you know, hamster wheel, right, of content development, and really looking at what you currently have, finding a way to archive it so that it's easily accessible, tagged with the appropriate, you know, information around your buying journey, and your persona's, and all of the stuff that helps you make the decisions, so that you can optimize it, or reimagine it, or find a different way, or a different way to use that content that's already there. I think it's a really missed opportunity for a lot of organizations. Part of it is because they don't have the technology resources to be able to accommodate that, right?
Jeff Julian: Yeah, and that's up to like Rand Fishkin and Andy Crestodina, have been saying for years. Like, when we're producing content, especially to the ones that are driven of SEO and search results, and driving the most traffic, when you see that, don't think, well because I did that there, I'm going to try to retune to all these other areas and get the same result. What that's showing you is like, you've got water coming into this place now. You can get more water by creating more content around that very specific topic. And to start to create new pages that link off of that, and to modify that content that do it slowly, that you can measure.
You'll see an increase there and then sit back and say, "How'd we do that? What was that attraction and then, where can we start to do smaller, you know pieces that will go along those same results?" But, it's not like, oh yeah, just start producing 10,000 more pieces of content like that because that might not be the intent of why the engine thought to send you that content.
Pamela Muldoon: For sure, yeah. Yeah, well, it was another great year of research. I mean, I always look forward to this time of year when CMI Marketing Profs come together to do this work. I know it's not easy work, so my hat goes off to all those behind the scenes, right, pulling this stuff together. This is, you know, we were talking before we started today about how it's, the research model of content development, it's kind of a meta approach, right? Because we have the Content Marketing Institute and Marketing Profs developing content around research around content. It's pretty fantastic and they've been doing it for a long time, and they do it well. I think a lot of us look forward to this every year.
Jeff Julian: Yeah.
Pamela Muldoon: Obviously, I recommend if you haven't taken a peek at the research, go to contentmarketinginstitute.com. What is it? Slash research and you'll find it there, the B to B research. Definitely take a look and see if it aligns with what's going on in your organization, or how you kind of, map up against what other organizations are saying in terms of strategy and development.
Jeff Julian: Absolutely. You know, give us your feedback too. Tell us what you liked and didn't like about the research, or some of the different results you might be having with your content marketing efforts. We'd love to hear more. We can incorporate some of those ideas, and those thoughts in upcoming shows.
Pamela Muldoon: Absolutely and of course surprises. You know, sometimes you see something that really surprises you. Yeah and even as we talk today, you know, Jeff, you know how this works. My mind starts oh, that's a show, that's a show, that's a show. I think I already came up a few ideas on what we could talk about in the future. I really appreciate you taking time to kind of digest this with me. It's really helpful to actually talk it, you know, not just look at it as a stagnant piece of research, but to kind of talk it through with someone else.
Jeff Julian: For sure. It's been fun.
Pamela Muldoon: Yeah. Well, Jeff, I think that's going to do it for us today. What do you think?
Jeff Julian: I do too. I think we'll chat with you guys again in about a month.
Pamela Muldoon: Yeah, so thanks again for tuning in. This is, of course, Pamela Muldoon with ...
Jeff Julian: Jeff Julian.
Pamela Muldoon: You're listening to The Explicit Content podcast and until next time, happy marketing.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to The Explicit Content podcast. For more information, check out enterprisemarketer.com.