Enterprise Marketer - Make Your Marketing Matter.

Every year in digital marketing things change.  The way we use Social Media changes, the way we reach customers changes, the way our audience interacts with our content changes.

In the software industry, things change at an even more rapid pace.  If you deployed a mobile application six months ago, there is a good chance the platform has had a significant overhaul since then.  If you launched a brand new Sitecore 8.0 site, guess what, Sitecore 9.0 is out with all new features and benefits.

All this change makes our fears climb continuously.  Are we doing it right?  Do we have the right team?  Can we make an impact?

This is where Content Marketing, Agile Marketing, and a stable Content Marketing Platform comes in handy.  Content Marketing helps you build the long-term rhythms for creating an audience and not restarting all the time.  Agile Marketing gives you for data and adaption you need to make pivots and know the health of the team.  And an excellent Content Marketing platform will help you stay on top of those software challenges and bring more features and tighter integration with our marketing platforms.

On this episode, Matt Dion, CEO of Mintent and Christoph Trappe, former VP of Content Marketing Strategy at ScribbleLive and now the Director of Content at Stamats, sit down to discuss the Content Marketing ecosystem, problems Content Marketers face daily, tools and strategies for delivering amazing experiences, and how to have a great sock game.

For more information on the pink socks mentioned in this show, visit the Pink Sock Tribe.

Thanks to our sponsors


- Thanks for making time

- Yeah.

- Talkin' with me today.

- Yes, thank you.

- So, what have you thought of Content Marketing World so far?

- Well, you know what, this is my first time here. It's the third time for our company, but it's my first time, and I like this show a lot, actually. I've become a little jaded with some trade shows from an ROI perspective, as a vendor, but this one's been great. I've had a lot of great conversations. People, I find are at this show, are actually really, seriously looking for technology. They're building out their MarTech stock, and they're lookin' for stuff, and so they're askin' really smart questions about platforms. Yeah, and it's been fun. There's been some great events and parties and things like that, so it's a good show. How about you?

- [Christophe] Lots of parties. You have a new role as CEO.

- Yeah, yeah. So I came into, the company was actually called Marketing.AI, and then I came in in December as the new CEO, and we renamed it, rebranded and everything, to Mintent, which is marketing with intent. So it's a little more aligned with our brand and more appealing to our persona kind of thing. And you're new as well, right?

- I am. Just started ScribbleLive about a month ago here, middle of the summer, or end of the summer I guess. And yeah, I've been spending the whole time on the floor talkin' to people, people comin' by asking questions, trying to find solutions to work flow problems, politics everybody sees the same barriers. But, fourth year at Content Marketing World for me, so I've been here a few times, seen it grow. Really, really interesting.

- What brings you back? Why do you keep coming back every year? What's the draw?

- Why do I keep coming back? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people I know, right, so to reconnect with them. And then you meet new people. I know Joe maybe even ask in one of the sections, how many people were new, I think--

- You're probably at the opening key note after.

- A big number every year, so yeah you run into new people, you get to connect with them, you get to talk with them. It's a new experience for me to just be out on the floor answering people's questions and trying to help them or see where you can--

- What's your role? What's your mandate there or your job description I guess.

- VP of content marketing. So basically what I do is I help people with their strategy, so any software.

- You help your clients with their content marketing strategies.

- So any software really is only as good as the strategy that it's used for right.

- Yeah absolutely.

- So that's what I do when people come in, we offer them strategic advice, and basically they can hire us for those services. And then you can buy whatever piece of the platform you need or you can buy everything.

- [Matt] The support, the strategy of it, that makes sense.

- So that's really my background. The training and strategy and implementation.

- Yeah and you guys create content as well for people?

- Right so we have one platform that does that visually, you can hire freelancers, they're vetted by talent managers.

- Yeah, that's good, that's good.

- Basically you can hire them. So you're not out in the wild trying to find your own.

- Fingers crossed. I hope this works so yeah. What prompted you to take your new role?

- Well I have been in software for my whole career. 23 years and in different roles, sales, marketing, product management and I've been a CEO before. And it's a company based in Vancouver where I live and a friend of my who's on the board approached me and said, "I'm on the board of this company "that's looking for a new CEO "and I know you're a marketer, "and come in and check it out." and so for me, I did a call it due diligence more on the market. I wanted to make sure if I was gonna join a company like where it was in the adoption life cycle. So after talking to the analyst and just contacts online in the industry, I realize, most people don't even know this category is a category. By and large its greenfield. People are using spreadsheets or they're using their light boards or they're using project management software. Just trying to make to happen and so I felt well as a marketer, a long time marketer. I know know the need for the software personally and it's a right time to be a company in this space. I love marketing and I love software so it was all those pieces. It was in Vancouver and then I looked at the software itself and that the people in the company and all the stars aligned and it just seemed like the next right move for me.

- How many people?

- Right now we're about 50 people.

- [Christophe] 50 people.

- Yeah, so we're small and growing quickly, up and coming.

- I definitely see there's gonna be a growth in people using better software solutions.

- [Matt] Yeah absolutely.

- The Word document, I'm still amazed how many people send back and forth Word documents and then after all that work, they published the wrong ones.

- Yeah when people go what's the pain of the marketer, I'm like well, there's definitely that pain of emails crossing in the night, and I spent all night working on this document. Oh, you worked on the wrong version. That happens all the time or hey, we're going to content marketing, why don't we look at the stuff we did last year and just see if we can. Where is it? Oh it's on that guys laptop, he's not here anymore. So just storing all these stuff in a central place is still a big problem.

- Or on some letter drive, 39 folders down, you have to have two--

- It's on the J drive, here's the URL. So that's a pain and then the spreadsheets the very elaborate spreadsheets that people build to manage this that's just like a piece of software, and it's alright become just an updated, unmanageable problem and then just visibility as to who's working on what, and when are things due, and all those things. They've been problems in marketing forever, but now that we're producing more and more digital content, you get more people involved. You get more freelancers, more agencies, it just, the problem becomes exponentially greater.

- So why do you think there's still so many people using those outdated tools. Why is it not changing quicker.

- It's what we know. It's what we know, it's hard to change.

- Yeah it is.

- You start with something that works good enough until it doesn't. And then you don't know if it exists. You come to a show like this. I could tell when the light bulb goes on in people. There's not a lot of people that know content marketing platforms, and they're around and they just trying to go, "How are you different than you and you and you?" But for some people, they just go, what is that? It's an editorial calendar. Oh my God and they just immediately, their face lights up 'cause they're like you can do that, and those are the best client right. Those people come in and they buy pretty quickly so yeah I think it's just what people know and it's easy, cheap, already there. Why people use, they'll use Jera or Asson or something. And they're like, "Well we already have it, "our developers use it," or something. It's square peg around the hole, which just happens all the time.

- [Christophe] It's interesting.

- So how about you guys? What is your primary? Where do you see the market going? What pains do you solve for the marketer and where do you think that goes and how are you keeping up with all that?

- People are creating more and more content. Everybody is doing it. I know we have some of the experts who say you should do less content but you should be more deliberate or whatever. And I think that's baloney quite frankly, because when you look at what they're doing. They are creating more content than ever.

- [Matt] Oh you mean it's baloney that they're actually doing it?

- That they're even saying that. That they're saying create less content, be more deliberate. I'm like I'm creating a lot of content and I'm very deliberate, but I'm not creating less. I'm creating more and so are they so--

- [Matt] It's hypocritical.

- Well I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to get you to think about let's be more deliberate. Let's be more put a strategy behind it. Know who you're writing for, know why you're writing it, what's the purpose. And so I do see a switch in the market, where people will be quicker to publish but they will be more deliberate.

- [Matt] So not either or both.

- Right, exactly.

- Now that makes sense. I'm one of those guys who says you don't need more content, you need more better content, more intentful or whatever. But I agree with you the important thing is you have the strategy and you know why you're creating the content, and of course if you have that employs first and then you could rapidly put more of it out, then that's gonna be better.

- What's good content or not, it's totally debatable, and it's available. And my joke is I've made a career creating above average content that's highly unique. So I wrote a couple books, they will never, ever win a literary price but they're highly unique.

- [Matt] Right, yeah, yeah.

- So people still, what's good and what's bad, and so it depends on who the audience is, but you gotta know who that is. So that's number one.

- [Matt] Oh for sure. So if you have a platform tied to your audience, so if you create content you have to say, this is who it's for and then what are your roles? What are trying to accomplish and then try to hit those goals right, and be deliberate but one of my favorite stories is I was presenting a strategy to a CEO, and he said, "Great plan Christoph. "It will come done to the execution." No kidding right. I'm like thank you for that word of advice. But if you don't publish, it won't work. How well is this piece of content performing that we haven't published zero views. You know what I mean?

- [Matt] That's pretty predictable analytic too there.

- That's one of my title, predictive analyst. No, so that's where I see the trend going. People are creating more unique stories, be more relevant to whoever they're trying to actually reach and service. What do you think?

- Agree with that. I think, people are always asking me what's working for marketing? What works and what doesn't? What package works and which ones don't? I said well you know what, if you have the right targets and you know their pain and you have something that addresses that and you message it in the right way, everything will work. Email will work, social will work. PPC will work, dialing out will work. Being at a trade show will work. If you don't have that, nothing will work. It doesn't matter the tactics in a way. Thethere's better ROI on certain things and all that but it's ultimately, it's coming down to that. And so there is a big discrepancy, when you ask users about what they think is important, and what they need and what they actually to invest in. Like oh persona is all buying journeys, oh strategy and what are you gonna invest in that? You're gonna spend time doing that or you're gonna write it down. Are you gonna invest in technology to do that? No, we're gonna outsource a lot of content to our agency. We're getting more writers. Even though they know that they should do it, and they wanna do it. I guess it's like eating right and working out. We all know we should do it but we just gonna go to McDonald's because it's right here.

- Because it's right here. So how do we get people to change their mind that they actually need this strategy? And that they gotta write it down because strategy, not being able to be found doesn't do you any good. I think that it's something that will hit a breaking point, people will get to desperation. 'cause they'll start going holy cow, PPCs and SEOs is expensive and all those tactical things. They'll just start piling more money, and yeah if you're a big huge, rich company, you can just do that, that's fine. But all the companies that are constrained, which is most companies. They'll welcome I start working. I can't just do more and keep spitting out in every channel and not. So why don't we take a stab at this doing it a little bit more strategic and see how it works. I think that it's like we'll keep doing it the way we're doing it till it just stops working. And maybe out of the desperation or the need to try to something different. We might go back that way.

- Like we can speak and we can tell people to write books and stuff but a lot of times people have to learn the hard way.

- They have to have some reason. Well that is true, one of the reasons, so media companies are changing quite a bit, and my theory and I've run this by some executives in the media industry. One reason why media companies aren't changing quick enough because bottom line. They're still doing pretty well financially so you have to feel the hurdle a little bit more to make a change. The problem I see with content is PPC campaign is successful when you run it, when you pay money for it or it could be at least. When you stop, it stops. When you have content. When you have good content, it's out there forever.

- [Matt] Yeah 'cause you can't turn it on and off.

- It goes up and up and up, and as long as you have good content. So that's a little sad for some organizations because the longer you wait, the more time you waste. And then you wonder why is it not working over night. So my recommendation always is, yes have a strategy, yes write it down, yes, do use some kind of platform that fits your needs, but then go and you can literally go from. I've seen it happen. You can go from strategy to the first piece of implementation in about a week. Oh you total can.

- No actually I really do like the agile marketing concept and approaches, and we've done some webinars on that, and had some of thought leaders on that speak, and I really agree with that. Just the concept, start small, test it out. If it doesn't work, don't do it again. If it does work, expand on it and do more, and I agree, you can't sit around and navel gaze and plan for six months before you publish a piece of content. You've gotta do them in parallel.

- And things change. One of my favorite story is that we had a partner, they were doing something new on Facebook and it really work.

- [Matt] Thank you, thanks.

- Standing ovation.

- [Matt] Whatever you said, they just went crazy, so it was good.

- So they tried something and it worked really well for two months, and Facebook changed something. Who knows what they changed. We don't know but it stopped working, so basically what you have to do. You have to ride these waves, if it's working, you can do it. It stopped working, stop it. And you have to continuously adjust and that's sometimes hard for organizations to remember because they're like, "Oh this is the new status quo." "This is the new thing." And even like today, I publish a blog post this morning. I talked about when to ignore the best practices. Do you know what I mean? Totally, you heard about all these best practices inworld and now it's like--

- They're not best.

- Which ones do you ignore and when do you do it? How do you decide? Not always, but sometimes.

- And I think that's what needs to happen is a new mindset for marketers, that it's not the same anymore and you obviously have to know how to be editoritive. And you have to know how to look at data and you have to know. Those weren't core skills that marketers had traditionally and now they're essential. And so it's just people relearning and new people coming in the industry that are just native to that as a marketer and it's a little bit of a transition period for the people that are doing it.

- [Christophe] Absolutely.

- That the management and the press.

- Well I really enjoyed our discussion. I bet you that millions of people watching at home, they've been wondering about our sock game. So you have, so you have a good sock game too.

- Well I've given away socks at shows, and someone said, way back when that the sock is the new tie thing. And I believe in that so I'm like why not wear something exciting so I always have some kind of. This is, Stance is a really cool brand of socks that I like, very comfortable. These are great white sharks. Sometimes I coordinate with what I'm wearing. Not always but I like it and you obviously got the cool socks too. So what's your sock story?

- So yes, so these are actually the pink sock stripe. It's actually in healthcare. I'm not in, I was most recently in healthcare.

- Okay, yeah.

- Working with large hospital systems on their content marketing, but basically pink socks, they look for change. They want to evolve, they wanna get stuff done. They wanna make things better as much as you can.

- So these are an exception or do you always wear cool socks?

- So that's pretty much the only kind of cool pair of socks I have.

- So normally you're just a black socks guy?

- Normally a black sock kind of guy. I only wear them at conferences, that's when you're suppose to wear them. People take selfies with them. Some people hold them up. So I'm not in healthcare anymore but the story behind it still applies.

- No, it's a great story.

- We always gonna do something that's for the greater good and of course help people to tell better stories and create better content of course.

- Well that's good because people ask and then it gives you that opportunity to tell the story.

- They do. Sometimes when I'm speaking though, I need to bring them up. I don't know if you've seen Seth Gordon who goes like this with his socks and he have cool keynotes.

- Oh yeah.

- I have them on and I forget about this that nobody sees them until I sit down.

- Opportunity wasted.

- You walk off the stage. Well maybe I should get a pair of those 'cause mine are like why your socks are? I don't know they have a great white shark on them, it's cool. I don't bring tears to people's eyes about my story on my socks. I would love too though.

- So it's #pink socks on Twitter.

- #pink socks.

- So if you tweet at them. They probably send you a pair.

- They would send me a pair?

- They probably will, okay.

- You just gotta tweet.

- So it's not related to the November.

- No, I don't know what that might be.

- Have you ever done November? Have you ever grown a big 'stache for November?

- So it's a really nice cause. The problem is that my beard growing skills are really limited.

- [Matt] They're limited?

- That's why I haven't participated, but other than that--

- You think it's a good cause.

- [Christophe] I would probably consider doing it.

- I have and I have facial hair. I wipe it out sometimes at the beginning of the month and then just grown the 'stache, and sometimes down here and yeah, you got people in the office involved in it. It gives you that excuse to have the creepy mustache. Normally people would look at you and they're like, "Oh, it's November."

- Well of course we were talking in early September and I would have had to start probably like the end of July to get-- So I wont bother this year.

- Well there's other ways to support it. I know there's, I can't remember what they're called. The women that signed up for two and I don't know what they do, but they don't grown mustaches. But there's probably other ways, you should support it. Maybe socks.

- Maybe with socks. Thanks for spending some time with me. It was good.

- Yeah that was great, awesome.

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