Enterprise Marketer - Make Your Marketing Matter.
Make Your Marketing Matter.

Can you create a podcast with only audio and never incorporate video? Absolutely, this has been proven with the adoption of radio in the 1900s and the resurgence of audio podcasts with mobile phones.

What about creating a video without audio? Sure! Although it would not be the norm, many people prefer to watch videos online without the audio using closed or open captions to read the content.

And finally, do you even need audio or video in your content marketing? Nope, a blog, article, or book is a great way to reach people who like or prefer reading content.

However, what happens when you mix the three together? Magic!

In this episode, we will demonstrate, and Matt Pierce and Pamela Muldoon will discuss, how using video and audio together can be the approach you have been looking for with your next Content Marketing pivot.

Thanks to our sponsors


- Hi, how's it goin'?

- Hey, I'm doing great.

- I'm Matt Pierce.

- Matt, I am Pamela Muldoon. It's really nice to meet you.

- It's nice to meet you too, Pamela.

- It's awesome to meet you.

- Yeah, so let's, I don't know anything about you so let's--

- You're a stranger to me, Matt.

- Let's get to know each other.

- Yeah, for sure.

- Where are you from and what do you do?

- And when you say where am I from, do you mean company or do you want to go back to when I was born?

- Well, your existential existence, you know, where did it start?

- Where are we all from?

- Kind of where are you based out of, company, and role?

- My current position is a campaign and contents strategist for a consulting agency called the Pedowitz Group. And the Pedowitz Group is actually located in Atlanta but we're a remote company so I get to work out of my home office, which is awesome. And I live in Henderson, Nevada currently. My thing is, we have this thing called the Las Vegas Strip. Perhaps you've heard of it.

- [Matt] I have indeed. I've been there once or twice.

- Henderson is where I live but you know, there's these lights in the distance.

- [Matt] It just grows and lights, there are no stars, there's only the strip.

- 24/7. Pretty much, pretty much.

- [Matt] Awesome.

- Yeah.

- [Matt] So what kind of stuff do you do for the agency?

- Well, I'm a strategist, a consultant strategist, which of course, that's kind of a buzzy thing to say, right? But at the end of the day I work with clients to help them put up their campaigns around marketing animation. Say Marketo, Eloqua, et cetera. I write for LeGen, DemanGen. But I do it mainly around the content that they're providing. What are they actually providing to the audience to get the objective. And so it's, you know, work with a lot of enterprise companies. So it's interesting and frustrating sometimes, all at the same time.

- Those things usually go together, right?

- And I'm really glad I work from home because sometimes I just need to walk outside. Turn it all down.

- Turn it off and sorry, bad cell connection. Vegas got in the way.

- Yep, I'm sorry, what, what? Yes, so Matt, you're with TechSmith, I know this.

- Yes.

- So, and all I know about TechSmith are the products that I really play with, which is of course your Snagit and your Camtasia from back in the day, I worked a little bit with that. But what do you do with TechSmith? What's your role?

- So my role is a unique one. I am the learning and video ambassador is my title.

- [Pamela] Wow, learning and video ambassador.

- So my role is a couple fold. One is to come out to events like Content Marketing World, and to give sessions, presentations. So I teach people--

- [Pamela] So the learning really is you teaching?

- Me teaching both in person. I'm also, my background is instructional design.

- Nice.

- So where a lot of people come from the background of, oh, I'm a marketer or I'm a sales person, I'm coming from a learning background, focused on years ago creating tutorials on how to use products like Snagit and Camtasia. And so I come out and speak at conferences, I meet people, I also write content, create content working on this idea of teaching people how to create video through using video to do that. So we know a lot of people, especially at events like this, they're like, hey guys, I want to use video. Or my boss is telling me I have to use video and so what I am, is that, say, here, let me help you to learn some of those fundamentals so that you can start. And it might be just a basic of like here's the most simple basic video you can do, or here's some things that you can do better and learn about more so that you can improve your quality so you can actually do the things that you want to do.

- So because of your instructional design background, do you find that you are better equipped in your own skill set to meet them where they're at?

- I think, yeah.

- 'Cause when you say video that's a huge topic right now, right? From technology to the content, to the angles, to the lighting, right? It gets a little insane. But I'm guessing that with the fact that you've been educating others for a long time, you've written education models, right? Or content that you've really kind of learned how to get very specific and detailed where you need to be. And when you're saying too much because it's too much.

- I mean there's always a risk, especially the more you learn, with anyone. You just get this cursive knowledge where it's like I don't know what I don't know anymore. Or I don't know what I know because there's fundamental layers upon layers. You've gotten complex in your system of thinking. What a basic person's like, I don't even know how to turn the camera on. You're like five steps beyond that 'cause you never even think about turning the camera on.

- Right, so you gotta step back to the basics with these folks.

- Yep, and there's strategies you can pull on and you learn as an instructional designer. Especially if you interview lots of subject matter experts, but I think it does give an advantage in that way, 'cause I'm used to teaching people who are at either ground zero or just above ground zero. But like you said, there's so many things that what to decide to teach on or what people need, I know it's across the board and it's harder to narrow in. Especially when you're talking to a group like--

- Well, a lot of times, we don't even know what we want, like when we come to someone like you, and I'm like, oh, I have to do a video. Well, that's a very broad statement. Yeah, no, I can imagine.

- Absolutely, so it's super interesting. I find it kind of this exciting challenge because I think video is such an important medium for us at this point. And it's so still underdeveloped. Even though it's actually quite big, there's so many different opportunities to do things that are new, to do things that are gonna change the way the industry thinks, or the way your business is working. Because you can get things in there that, even if you're a great writer, it's really hard to do. Like get emotion, get feeling, make it really compelling. You can do that but you can do it on a different level I think with the visual, the audio, the music, and all the components coming together.

- Well, and you said a word that to me is very important, audio. I've been a podcaster longer than this conference.

-That's awesome! I love podcasts.

- So I know one of the things that I was coached to talk to you about, was the importance of audio in video. So I would love just to do a little chit chat around that because I've always told people, 'cause I get the question, I do some podcast consulting. I've helped with that with some companies and some individuals, and I get a lot of questions like, should I do video or a podcast?

- [Matt] Interesting. Oh yeah, which one should I do? Which to me, that's the wrong question to ask. So I love your take on just kind of that methodology 'cause they're coming to you 'cause they already know they wanna do video probably. But when people are asking me that, and it always surprises me. Why are you making a choice? You could probably do both and do them well or work them together in your plan in some way. But then the importance of audio when it comes to video and some of the struggles and opportunities you see.

- Do we have like three more hours today because--

- I think we have as much time as we want.

- I'm interested in your answer for this too. Don't let me just answer and then you not answer 'cause I think with the question of do I do a podcast or do I do video, like I said, I think it's getting at the wrong question because those are just mediums. It's like well do I write for my website or do I do a video for my website?

- [Pamela] I know, right?

- Well, what are you trying to accomplish? Where's your audience and who is it that you're trying to reach? 'Cause we've seen a resurgence of podcasting that's gone, it was kind of big for a little bit and then it dipped and now in the last couple years, we've seen it really grow. Which is interesting though because you look at the top podcasts and a lot of them are professionally produced. Like NPR, which is great--

- [Pamela] Editing resources, they've got professional studios and yeah, yeah, right.

- But I know for a fact that the cost of entry to a podcast, 'cause I've actually started two podcasts. One of them--

- Is the keyword started?

- Started, yes. It's always time and these are personal projects of mine.

- For sure, yeah.

- And one of them, I was highly producing interviews with people called the Backstory Project where I was just like, like you would be someone I'd interview and be like, let's figure out how you got to where you are. And so it was super fun but just a time commitment. And I'm like, okay, with all the other things in life, I can't really do that.

- If you want it done well, you're gonna put the effort and effort, yeah, I totally get it.

- So that, from a cost perspective, yes, of course that's gonna be more or less than some other things you can choose to do. Now the other one I did is actually what I call community-driven podcast. It's called Five Trainers In a Car. So it's a L&D focus. I know, it was a spur of the moment rant. There were five people in this little Mercedes Benz convertible and we're talking about stuff that was really relevant and interesting and somebody said, "This would make a great podcast." And I had a digital recorder and I pulled it out and I said, "Let's do it."

- Oh, that's hilarious.

- And so we did that one episode. Then someone said, "Well, I want to do one." And they're like, "But Matt, you're not here." And I said, "I don't have to be here." And so at events like this, for the L&D space, what I did is said, "You want to make a podcast, "get a couple people together, get in a car, "pick a topic and record it. "Send it to me, I'll probably "have you write content for it or whatever, "but let's do this." You know, we haven't done a ton of episodes and again, there's some time, 'cause if I'm the only person driving it. But the cost of entry was a digital recorder, and that's actually really it 'cause I had, you know you can use free software, or if you have software on your machine you do audio editing. And the quality isn't perfect because you're in a car.

- [Pamela] Right, it's kind of, your environment almost forgives the proper quality for say a studio-driven type of experience.

- Right, now I don't recommend recording in a convertible every time.

- [Pamela] There's a little ambient noise going on

- But the thing is it wasn't bad. It was, there's kind of that background noise so it worked.

- [Pamela] Just a little bit of a hum?

- Yeah, and people have become really, wow, this is really fun. Because you get to have this conversation and kind of that authenticity.

- Well, you're putting them in an environment that's very comfortable and they're just gonna talk. They probably forget the recorder's on.

- Sometimes, yes, some of them did. We did an episode in Las Vegas and it was like, whoa! Talkin' about bodies and anyway. So the entry cost to podcasting is pretty low. So if your budget constrained, do that. If you're just like, I just need to get media out there and I want to do something that's not rin, podcasting can be really affordable.

- Absolutely.

- But if you wanna do it well, of course you've gotta put time and effort into it. Dedicate some resources. Now video, it used to be we had to go high-end. Like oh my gosh, this is gonna be $10,000 entry point, but the advent of cell phones and smartphones with decent cameras, that cost has come down. Now that's now what you want to do everything, you don't wanna do everything to be a smartphone. But I feel like we're at the point where you can make really good video with the device in your pocket and a lot of just thoughtfulness. And so the cost is kind of getting eliminated in some ways so you can do neat things. Or you can take the audio, if you plan how that content's gonna flow, you can do both.

- [Pamela] Right, right.

- Part of this weekly, they do every Fridays, we call it video Fridays. It's a learning development group that gets together. Livestream kind of chat, and they've started turning that into a podcast 'cause not everyone can watch it. And the visuals, it's really three people or four people talking. It's like that's not that interesting to look at. Kind of maybe like us talking.

- That's a really valid point. I hadn't really thought of it from that angle but that's totally valid, right? Like we get a lot of now what I consider them webcasts, not podcasts, when video's involved. I'm kind of a purist that way So when someone tells me they're doing a podcast and it's a video version or it's a two-headed video that they're recording or whatever the case is, I'm like you're doing a webcast or a video. And because the delivery model is so different and kind of to your point, I'm hoping that as people are watching us talk, this is awesomely fascinating. But with four people kind of talking to each other, it kind of changes the dynamic of video. Unless you're probably doing like cool shots or you know--

- Well, this is all remote even. It's like, so it's just the squares of people in whatever space room.

- You're doing a conference call--

- And everyone's listening in. Everyone's listening in and they're chatting on the side about what you're talking about or not. But I think, so those experiences you gotta plan for. So again, the question isn't do I do this or do I do that. Which one should I do? It's where's your audience 'cause podcasting, unless you already have a good distribution method inside your organization, you're gonna go to iTunes, you're gonna go to GooglePlay. And is your audience there and do they care? I think a really good example of an organization that's done an interesting podcast is Slack.

- Yes, I agree.

- And it was interesting when they went through the change because they had the podcast and they were going ahead, and also like, we're taking a break. When we come back it's gonna be completely different.

- Right

- I was like, whoa, well that's interesting. Could they have done video? Yeah, but it would've probably upped their budget a ton and the cost of getting on location for what they were trying to do to tell the story. But can you tell the effective story and then does your audience care enough to find you there? And then same with video. You can do all the video you want but if your audience isn't gonna watch it, who cares?

- [Pamela] That's so true.

- Long answer but what's your thoughts?

- In terms of the either or conversa? I mean, I'm right there with you. It's always struck me as an odd question but I think what they're really saying is we only have the budget for one thing. Which one should we do? And it always goes back to bigger questions. Who's your audience, what's your objective? What's the business result if you're doing it for business that you want to obtain? And I think it is important. But I also think that if you have the resources, whether it's a small group of people, a small company, where you can have different people try different things, or even a bigger marketing department in an enterprise situation, I say try. Try a little bit of everything because I think along with the audience and objective questions, I think one of the things I'm taking out of the conference this year too is just get your foot wet. Just go out there. It's so funny, Matt. I have been a purist. I actually started my first career in radio.

- [Matt] Okay, so you--

- Like 30 years ago, like seriously.

- [Matt] I won't tell anyone.

- So I'm a purist audio person and I'm not afraid of a video. Obviously I wouldn't be sitting here but it's not something that I automatically think, I want to do some video because I'm very conscious of how different the delivery model is. Because that's the other thing is I really want content creators to respect the medium that they've chosen. To learn as much as they can, how they want to look.

- Stop slouching, man. That's my cue to stop slouching.

- But you know, even this, if we did this, if we scrape the audio on some very visually descriptive, where the visual is more descriptive than the audio, we lose a little bit. Does that makes sense?

- [Matt] Yeah, you absolutely lose a ton.

- Totally and then at the same time, I have no doubt you've experienced this, people are doing video and their audio is horrendous. And what's the odds of watching, our viewership, when that happens?

- We find that it goes down dramatically and that's one of the points I talk to a lot of people about is audio is 50% of your video in a lot of ways. And there's things you can do. Especially like you look at Facebook and people are not watching videos with audio and there's ways to compensate for that but it's really tough. Because if they are watching it and you don't have a voiceover or somebody talking about something, how are you conveying that mood and that feeling? And you could use music, you could use all sorts of stuff for that but it's such an integral part of telling the story, whatever that story is. Even if it's a more formal, like a CEO talking to the company. You wanna convey and dictate what that message is to all the mediums. And that's what's great about video. Now as someone who, as an audio purist, I'm curious. I hear a lot of people, and particularly, there's different videos, not every video needs a voiceover. A lot of people hate their voice. So what tips, what would you tell to somebody, they're like, I can't do a podcast 'cause I have a terrible voice.

- Right, right. And did they tell you I was a voiceover talent as well?

- No, no! I didn't know that, that's awesome.

- I literally been doin' the mic thing for a long time.

- You can tell I'm not 'cause I'm like all raspy.

- But you've got your own voice and I think that's what's really critical. I actually had a chance, I thought the podcasting panel here at Content Marketing World this year. And afterwards, a member of the audience, we talked about delivery. And it was fascinating because he said, our agency's recommend we hire a voiceover talent, a professional voiceover to possibly do the podcast but they don't know our content. Versus like me, I know the content but I sound funny. Or I don't like the sound of my voice. And I actually recommended to get over that. And I don't mean that in a negative way but practice. I think what Mitch Chule said today was, "Put your reps in." Get behind the mic and practice and just get comfortable because at the end of the day, whether it's video, audio, the written word, it's about that connection. And we're talking about mediums that are very intimate in a way, right? Sometimes the way the camera works with a person is intimacy. What we do in audio is pure intimacy. And yes, you can use a professional voice and that might sound good, but they can't speak about your brand and your services and your community the way you can. And they were a membership association on top of it. I'm like, dude, you have got to be you. And it's practice. I mean we always sound different in our own ear, right? I was very fortunate. I started in broadcasting when I was a teenager and went into radio school and did that. I learned to get past that, 'cause I hated the sound of my voice just like everybody else. But when you're getting airchecked every week by your boss, you get over it really fast. So I always say aircheck yourself. Or find other people you trust that are gonna give you positive and negative feedback. Do you know what I'm saying?

- So aircheck, when you say, that's a phrase that I don't necessarily know.

- Oh my God, that's so awesome. I don't even realize I'm probably even dating myself 'cause we used cassette tapes

- Get the pencil, gotta rewind.

- Aircheck was when you're on the air, you actually would put a cassette into the recorder and the studio would record your whole, all of your shift. You would actually stop recording during the commercial breaks, or when you were playing the songs, and whenever you hit the microphone, it would start recording.

- Oh, yeah.

- So it would aircheck you, basically it could check yourself on the air.

- What you sound like, your levels are right and things like that?

- And then you'd sit down with your program director usually once a week, maybe once every two weeks, and he would listen and give you feedback.

- [Matt] Oh, interesting.

- You know, so like a review basically only it was all the time. Like this was a really funny bit, yeah, keep doing stuff like that. You ran into this commercial stop too fast. So giving you tips on how to be better at delivery as well as how to build your own personal brand as a DJ.

- So I love that concept because I think whether it's audio or video, that feedback, and I think for me, when people say, "I don't love my voice." I'm like, yeah, get over it, you got a great voice.

- [Pamela] Right, I know, it's easy to say.

- Build a personality and I tell people to be a persona of yourself. Be you but either figure out how to take that up a notch a little bit so you're just a little bit bigger so it comes through, but also, seek out that feedback. I remember, so when I started at TechSmith, I've been there, gosh, over 11 years now.

- Did you come in on your walker today?

- 11 years ago, way back when. But it was really the first videos I was creating, I think I made one for my interview and I had made maybe one video before that. And here I was expected to make tutorial videos and I did some of the voiceover work for the tutorials and I remember one of the guys that was over, the product manager of the product said, "You're too Midwestern, too Michigan."

- Oh my goodness.

- And I'm like, I was like devastated. Like oh my gosh, here I am trying to do these videos. And it was fine, he went and did it with his very Californian, even keel, neutral. And I realized I as a person, my voice is not gonna be as good as some people that do voiceovers for us and they're just really good. They got a good, some of the guys have this nice, clear kind of bass and I'm not that. But I just be me. And I just ramp up me.

- But you have a personality and I think that's what's so critical. And honestly voiceover is a very different audio model versus a podcast, right? And I think what's really critical about understanding that is that personality part. That edge-you-tainment element. And there's a reason that when we, 'cause even in the voiceover world, one of the things I've been coached and mentored by some of the biggest names in voiceover. And I've talked to a lot of agents. A lot of people in the industry that are hiring people. And it all comes down to this basic thing that when people tell you you have a voice for voiceover, that's not the reason to get in it. The reason to get in it is because you have the ability to be a character or you have the ability to be conversational. Way back in the day we had the big announcer voices like Gary Owens from Laugh-In. I'm totally dating! Don LaFontaine, yes, the trailer guy, right? And they were paid because the announcer voice was a very special kind of delivery. Not everybody could do that. We're actually finding voices like you, Matt, are the way people want to hear us. They want to hear just people talkin' and that's why podcasting is awesome.

- [Matt] And I think that translates to video too. From a brand perspective because, and I've noticed this 'cause I do a lot of video for TechSmith. I do Facebook live videos. I did a web show back, starting in 2010 and so I've done a lot of these things. And what I find is I go out and people are like, I know you! And I'm like, hi, I don't remember who you are but because they connect. I'm just a real person. I'm not anyone.

- Wacky.

- [Matt] I'm a little weird.

- You are a little weird but that's okay.

- [Matt] I've got some nerd cred but people respond to that in video as well I think just from a voice, because all of a sudden you become the friendly face that makes it okay to be approached. Like oh, he talked to me on Face, I was on their Facebook page and he was there.

- He talked to me on Facebook. That's so funny. That is probably literally what it feels like, right? He's talking to me on Facebook 'cause it's in the feed and there it is.

- So yeah, so I think there's a lot of parallels and going back to our kind of original which one, using and learning from both and then as you said, I think going and just continuing to learn, if you don't like your voice, get over it. And start learning what makes it a little bit better.

- Yeah, and I think too, do you see this, I'd be curious. Do you see this, when people get in front of a camera, they act a little different?

- Oh yeah.

- Because there's another eyeball lookin' at 'em. Like even I am trying to not look at the camera because I know we're supposed to talk to each other And it's driving me a little crazy 'cause I don't do video as much so it's not a comfort place. I mean I can do it but it's not, and yet, I think the same things happens when people get behind a mic and they realize it's there. So when you're talking about your podcast and people forgot the recorder was on, that's when the magic happens is when you forget it's there. But that's really hard for a lot of people, I think especially with cameras, with video.

- It is 'cause it's right there in your face. Especially with video, I mean, you got lights, it's bright. It doesn't feel natural. You're asked to sit--

- [Pamela] How's my hair?

- Can I move my face? And you know that someone out there on the Internet is probably judging what you're doing. Fair or not, they're doing it and so you feel all this pressure. We had an executive we were making a video for and he's gonna do an announcement for the company and he's a good public speaker but put him in front of that camera and he really struggled. He just froze because it was just this different dynamic. And I think you can coach people so much and really my solution for him, had I been heavier involved in production, would have been let's take him down to get a drink. Not a lot.

- [Pamela] You're gonna do shots and then--

- Just one or two, he was Irish, he'd be fine. He was a good guy.

- [Pamela] Yeah, bring a bottle of whiskey whenever he came. That's all you need. When he shows up, get that whiskey out.

- And you know just helping people to feel comfortable. Doing things so they can be natural. Having someone that they can talk to rather than talking to the camera. Because a lot of the video that people do, you don't have to have, I'm looking in the camera talking to an audience. Now for I think Facebook Live and some of those things, yes, you do that 'cause you're talking to them directly. But like this, and it's just a matter of habit of not doing the thing where I'm looking over for approval because there is no approval when I look at the lens. Only scolding looks of we told you not to look!

- It's actually quite intimidating. And this is exactly how the podcast situation is at its best as well, right? Whether it's yourself talking or maybe you do have a co-host or interviews, whatever. Even if we're not sitting next to each other, it's the idea that we are sitting next to each other. And that's why the show works. Because you just broke down that barrier and you're just talking. You're just having great conversation and really connecting.

- And I think this is a really great example 'cause we literally met three minutes before we sat down?

- Maybe three.

- And the only thing that we knew about each other is you knew TechSmith. But I think the thing that regardless of your situation, whoever you're putting on camera or whoever you're putting on audio, if they have a passion for the topic or they care, even if they're not the brightest and the most eloquent person that's gonna be able to talk about it. They maybe have a little lisp or who cares? But they're passionate and that translates better than anything. And the podcast I was talking about earlier, the Five Trainers In a Car, the reason it works is because the people that come in the car, they're passionate about something. And they want to talk about that topic. I want to talk about a learning management system and why they stink or why they're great. And it doesn't matter what their position is so much, but that they care. And then it's like, oh my gosh. Of course I want to listen to them because they do have that fire in the belly. They do have something to say. They took a position.

- [Pamela] Yes, they have a strong point of view.

- Yeah, 'cause there's nothing worse than somebody that's like, I don't know, I don't care.

- Right.

- It's awful.

- In any podcast, I've done mainly interview format podcasts, and I loved them because I would only talk to people who were passionate about what they did. And I always said my job is just to hold you right here and ask you a great question and you're gonna do everything else. Because you already know all the answer. You know the answer. I'm just here to help pull out a little bit of your excitement and your enthusiasm which isn't hard to do if they already have passion. And we connect with that, that's what connects us.

- So we probably should wrap up at some point but you talk about holding them in your hand and I kind of said something like going to get the whiskey.

- [Pamela] I kind of like your take better.

- And I don't even drink, it's crazy. What's the one thing that you do, if you've got someone that's nervous, I mean there can be passion and all that but they're nervous, what do you do to help them just feel more confident?

- One thing I've always done with my, especially the interviews, 'cause I interview a lot of the writers and the book authors, the presenters. They're really good at what they do but you're right. You get them in a media situation and they kind of shift a little. Or they're afraid they don't have all, did I get all the questions ahead of time? I want to be perfect, right? And it's the imperfection that actually makes it really cool, right? But what I always make sure I do is I set up enough time in the interview, we have time in what I call the green room, where we're just talkin'. You know as we're kinda gettin' set up, we're just talking and breaking down that first initial uncomfortableness and just giving them kind of this is how the format works. This is how I'm gonna work with you. And there have been so many times where I'll say, "Okay, I'm gonna count down three, two, silent one "and then we're gonna get started." They're like, oh, we aren't recording yet?

- I love actually recording those.

- And I am recording. Yeah, I know, it is funny 'cause I can edit out obviously. But the idea is that they've already gotten so comfortable that they just thought this was part of the interview. And to me, just get them comfortable. Get them talking about their kids, something personal. Something that doesn't put that big business feel to it but we're just humans, we're just having a good time. We're gonna talk and the people out there are gonna have a really wonderful time listening to you.

- [Matt] Yeah, awesome.

- This is so fun, Matt.

- We could keep, I know we could keep going. I'm absolutely positive we could keep going but I think--

- Absolutely, well it's been a pleasure.

- Yeah, absolutely, a pleasure.

- And I really love Snagit, by the way.

- Well, thank you.

- It's one of my favorite tools.

- Thank you, I appreciate it.

- I'd be remiss if I didn't say that.

- Well, appreciate it. Appreciate everyone that uses it because, I mean, it takes care of my family so

- I'm happy. I'm happy that your kids could eat this week

- And I love that people find value in something that we get to build.

- [Pamela] Absolutely, yeah.

- It's cool to come to a conference like this and hear the love and hear how it's making people's lives just a little bit better because work is hard and work is long. And having something that just kind of works--

- And you do make my life easier. You're absolutely right. So, Matt, thank you.

- You're welcome.

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